Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Frazer Responds to King of Ireland on Romans 13:

At American Creation Dr. Gregg Frazer left a comment responding to a commenter named King of Ireland on Romans 13 and whether the story of Moses and Egypt is an example that justifies "rebellion to tyrants." Frazer's position, which he can justify throughout the biblical record, is "rebellion to tyrants is ALWAYS disobedience to God." The larger point I take from Frazer's fervent insistence on this point -- that rebellion against government is always wrong according to the Bible -- is that just because some folks called themselves "Christians" a few hundred years ago and attached "God" to their pet ideas doesn't necessarily mean the text of the Bible alone properly justifies such theological claims. I see this especially apt with the Declaration of Independence which, though it invokes God, attaches all sorts of ideas to God that have NOTHING whatsoever to do with what's written in the Bible.

Frazer's method at the very least cautions against using Sola Scriptura (i.e., the Bible alone) to vet our pet theological causes in which we would like to believe, like God grants men unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and to revolt against tyrants. The "Sola Scriptura" that led Luther to break away from the Roman Catholic Church or that is used to argue against Mormonism, also, arguably shoots down the theological claims of the Declaration of Independence.

King of Ireland:

God did NOT tell Moses to "break away from Pharaoh" -- where? What verse? He told Moses to go to Pharaoh (not organize a rebellion) and repeat to him God's demand that he let the Israelites go. When Pharaoh refused, Moses still did not organize rebellion -- he just kept repeating God's words to Pharaoh. Revolution is always wrong and God is not a liar.

[It's best to be accurate in what you say before casually throwing around an accusation against God]

As for rulers going down, God uses the sinful activity of men for His purposes and makes it work to fulfill His plan -- but that does not change the fact that the action was sinful/wrong [the end does not justify the means].

Where does the Bible say that God sent Moses to revolt -- what verse?

What is the connection between killing an individual Egyptian and revolution against the government of Egypt? FORTY YEARS elapsed between the killing of the Egyptian and Moses' return to Egypt to confront Pharaoh.

Where does the Bible say that Moses (or the Israelites) took up arms against the Egyptian government -- what verse?

On the contrary, Moses presented GOD'S demands (not his) and then merely obeyed Pharaoh's command to leave Egypt in Exodus 12:31-32 -- they didn't fight their way out or try to overthrow the government of Pharaoh. All of the attacks on Pharaoh's people and all of the deaths were done by God Himself -- not by Moses or the Israelites.

Jesus did NOT tell his disciples to "get their swords" when they came for Him -- what's the verse? BEFORE they came for Him, He told his disciples to CARRY swords in order to fulfill prophecy (Luke 22:37). When they said they had two swords (for 12 men), He said that was enough -- because they weren't to be USED. He rebuked Peter for USING a sword, which was never the intent (John 18:36).

There is a difference between "disobedience" and "resistance." Authorities should be "disobeyed" when they command disobedience to God, but "resistance" is never justified.

I am sorry that you will not worship a God Who says something you disagree with (in your infinite/infallible wisdom), but Who took on human flesh, came to earth, and died to provide a means of forgiving your disbelief and sins in order to make eternal life available to you.

I disagree with your assessment: I think most people have a problem with Christianity because "men love the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds are evil." [John 3:19] You complain about lack of choice, but when men have a choice, they reject God.

As for bad translations, I am basing what I say on the original manuscripts (original Greek & Hebrew).

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